Friday, October 28, 2005

Bosnian Pyramid

Update - October 31st: I should know better than to trust the media. The "pyramid" seems to have been discovered by someone involved in "alternative history" see comments.

What is thought to be Europe's first pyramid has been discovered in Bosnia. The general estimate is that it was constructed by an early civilization at about 12,000 years ago, though older estimates have been suggested - one as old as 20,000 years ago. Even 12,000 is mind boggling when you consider that the ice age was only just ending. It seems to be about 100 meters tall which makes it about two thirds as high as the Great Pyramid at Giza. If all this is true (only the first stages of excavations have been started) it means that the society who built it would have had to have been surprisingly advanced for the time. Seeing how little of humanity's time on this planet has been during the known period of civilization and seeing that some of the oldest known cities are some of the most recently discovered, there are still plenty of chances for finding surprises. (Calm down crystal grippers! It's not like they have found the fiber-optic cables of Atlantis.)

There is one thing I take issue with about this story though. I have lost a link to an article about this (there is little in any of them beyond the initial discovery of the site) but one claimed that "this hill could not have been formed by nature" I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they made this statement as a result of the first excavation. While I admit that the hill did look like a pyramid (after reading the article) it also looked like a pyramid shaped hill. Natural geological formations can often look like artificial constructions, leading to "discoveries" like an ark shaped rock in Turkey, an "Atlantis road" shaped line of rocks off Cuba and countless "pyramids" on Mars. The claim that nature never uses right angles may be common in the new age movement but it is not taught in geology courses and nature follows the laws of physics, not the expectations of humans.


At Sun. Oct. 30, 10:14:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Ron said...


At Mon. Oct. 31, 11:22:00 a.m. 2005, Blogger Apesnake said...

Are you basing that opinion on extra information or is that just the impression you get? I would not put it past the BBC and other non science media to publish the story without even seeing the supposed "geological and archeological research" but I have yet to see any critical review of the story. If you know of one please leave a link.

Also, hoax implies a purposeful deception, If this story does lack any substance it is likely a case of human error rather than a hoax.

Either way, thanks for the comment. If they start pulling artifacts out of the site and the archeological community comes on board we will know it is not a hoax and if the archeologists involved spend the next 20 years trying to convince people that fuzzy satellite photos and a couple of oddly shaped rocks are actually proof of an alien base and that we are all just too closed-minded to accept it then we will know that...

"Oh papa-toonie, we've got a loonie!"

At Mon. Oct. 31, 03:29:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Ron said...

My first opinion was that it's a hoax with both the dating and the sophistication of the "structure" being grossly exaggerated if not pure invention.

Then I did some googling...

I had a hard time finding any credible, English report. The best were along the lines of:

That was enough to get the name of the person making the claim, Semir Osmanagic aka Sam Osmanagich.

Googling him, I found:

At Mon. Oct. 31, 04:50:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Gyrobo said...

Right angles have always angered me.

At Mon. Oct. 31, 05:06:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Apesnake said...


All I knew about the structure was that it was being called a pyramid, there were references to a "labyrinth and a wall" being found at the base of it and I had seen some slabs that, it was being implied, were hand crafted. While I thought it was naive that they were assuming that there would be and entrance and an internal structure, I never guessed that this was a full blown fake.

The age was not enough to raise my suspicions because I had heard of an even older city being found in India. As it happens however, I just did a search for the ancient Indian city I had heard of and found it mentioned in a BBC article. True to form for the BBC, the article relied on the opinion of a certain Graham Hancock who turns out to be one of those people who never met an alternative theory which he did not like and who is not qualified to tell "BBC News Online that the evidence was compelling" as the article mentions. (Or maybe I should say that the only one he is qualified to judge evidence for would be the BBC.)

While I could not get the website: translated, the tile pretty much says it all and you may be right about it being a deliberate hoax. After watching Pat Robertson and "Mr. Natural" (aka Kevin Trudeau) operate, I am less convinced these days that people who traffic in wild beliefs are actually believers themselves.

It seems that the BBC has become so poor at checking sources and so good at passing off supposed experts without mentioning their checkered backgrounds (see their stories about the
UN Rapporteur on the
Rights of the Hungry to the Food of Greedy Western Imperialists and Zionists
) that they have extended these practices from the political stories to the science stories. I am one false news story away from removing their link from my page (that will scare them) and the only reasons I am not tossing them out right now is that their latest reference was only a reference to other newspaper stories on the continent and they were not the first ones to "inform" me of this discovery.

At Mon. Oct. 31, 05:09:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Apesnake said...

gyrobo said...

"Right angles have always angered me."

Are you obtuse?

At Mon. Oct. 31, 05:15:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Ron said...

There is a section in English:

At Mon. Oct. 31, 05:46:00 p.m. 2005, Blogger Apesnake said...

I think it made more sense in Spanish or Portuguese or whatever.

The only thing worse than seeing people trying to blur the boundary between ancient and new-age mythology is the disregard for actual archeology to the extent that one is willing to make up just about anything.

The Alternative History site states that:

"we should become planetary Maya with sophisticated technology which will harmoniously connect the frequencies of the Sun and our psyches." I wonder if this will involve sacrificing the losers in sporting events.

Now I need to go back and check in to every archaeological story I have heard in the last five or ten years in the mainstream news. Did they really decode one of the knots on the Incian knot language? Have they really discovered loads of ancient writings in an Egyptian dump?

One day someone is going to need to bring about a rebirth of journalism.

Thanks for the heads up on this.

At Sun. Jan. 08, 05:39:00 p.m. 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please check this site:

I live in the town of Visoko where the pyramid(s)was found. It is a real discovery with with a great number of evidences and it is almost finished thing. This will change the history of the word.


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